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Theres no appropriate title

Discussion in 'General Open/Public Discussion' started by Swift As Feather, 20 Mar 2006.

  1. This may be very politically orientated, but I cant help it, I felt compelled to post it. Regardless of how you feel about abortion, I feel its worthy information. If your easily emotionally upset or easily offended, please do not click on the link.

    The world is watching....

  2. Hamma

    Hamma Commanding Officer Officer

    Propaganda for the lose. It's the same thing as PETA posting images of cows getting slottered at the butcher. Or anti-war people posting shots of troops getting killed.

    Edit: still sucks though.
    Last edited: 20 Mar 2006
  3. Manitou

    Manitou Old War Horse DragonWolf

    I have to disagree Hamma. Posting cows getting butchered is far and away a different level than human beings slaughtered.

    Swifty, thanks for the eye-opener. Let the truth be told.
  4. I'm not uninformed enough to think it is a pleasent experiance, and I've seen similar pictures before. I also think it must be one of the most horrific things a woman could ever go through, which the nasty little pictures don't show.

    However, regardless of whether or not I agree with abortion, regardless of the horrible little pictures, I still don't think anyone has the right to dicate to a woman what she can or cannot do with her body. There's a difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice.

    I've seen those pictures on sign boards at anti-abortion protests. Parents with there little children holding them. You all thought that the Dad who played the prank on his kid was a dick. When I see parents doing shit like that, I want to stab them in the face.

    Anywho, happy day!
  5. before this turns to one side vs the other. dont let that happen. I only posted it for information, yes, you may now know my feelings, but I will not for a minute imply I would impose them on others. Its a website, its out there, so I linked it.
  6. Please that's a cop out. As one of the most devisive issues in the United States, don't expect to innocently "provide information". Why not provide all information then.

    The world is watching. Personally I would rather not be lumped in with the red and pink countires.


    Hey look, I can post disgusting pictures too, it's just a link, an honestly I recommend you don't click on it.


    Yes yes Swifty, you posted a link. But by doing so you automatically make it one side vs. the other. Don't expect the other to not say anything about it.

    Let me go look up some execution pictures quick so I can just provide some info on the death penalty.
  7. Om

    Om DragonWolf

    I watched the video and the broken bodies are very much what I felt like as a child. I think my mother would feel the same if she saw it. See, she was illegitimate in a time where being illegitimate meant you were walking sin. She spent the first two years of her life in a state home in a crib where noone took her out of her bed. At age two she either had to be taken home by her mother or put up for adoption. Unfortunately her mother chose to take her home out of guilt. She couldn't walk or talk at age two so everyone thought she was retarded and illegitimate. She was horribly abused physically and sexually by her stepfather, shunned by her relatives. Sometimes she had to sit outside while her family visited in the homes of relatives because to allow her inside meant they accepted the sin my grandmother had committed.

    My grandmother accepted the abuse of a horrible husband for most of her life as her punishment for what she did before marriage.

    I can't judge someone for choosing to spare a child or herself from that.

    This is why I encourage all parents I have encountered who discover their daughter is pregnant before marriage, and are against abortion to really be there for that unborn baby by supporting that daughter emotionally during the time of shame when people around her discover the pregnancy, by making sure she knows she always has a home to live in, by helping with childcare, expenses, helping her get through college if that's her dream. You can't always count on the baby's father to pitch in, but sometimes he and his family will step up, especially if they see marriage is not demanded and if they see the wonderful things the mother's family is up to.

    BTW, I will not say who it is, but we have one father I know of here among us who stepped up to the plate for his daughter and now has a wonderful grandchild. I adore this man. He is what preventing abortion is all about. -Not about picketing clinics. It's about being there as a family when your daughter comes home with tough news. It's about embracing her and her child for the rest of your lives.
    Last edited: 20 Mar 2006
  8. Hamma

    Hamma Commanding Officer Officer

    I agree 100% with Rayzer here (Which is strange in itself) You can't post a link like that just for "Informational" purposes because there is another side to that information.

    How is the life of a human any different than the life of a dog, or a cow? Or a Cat? A life is a life.

    Besides all that though it boils down to personal choice of a woman - her basic rights. it's not up to the gov't or a church or anyone else besides that woman and (if around) the father.
    This is also very true :) I wish more of the world was like this but unfortunatly it is not.
    Last edited: 20 Mar 2006
  9. Yes, Swifty, you are correct, this is a political post. However it is good to know you feel so strongly regarding this issue~!

    I think the former MN governor Jesse Ventura summed it up quite well. When asked what his opinion of Abortion was he quipped “As a man, I really don’t think its any of my business.”

    While I am not in favor of Abortion, I am also very opposed to the extremes that some groups. It is hard to make a message clear because we are so de-sensitized in many areas. So I try to weed out the adjectives and look for facts.
    I didn’t go through the entire thing, yet I noticed that in their opening video they stated 1.3 million children died from legal abortion. I cannot remember the legal definition of a child, but I do not think a fetus qualifies. Does anyone know what the legal definition of a child is, and provide their source?
    child is, and provide their source?
    And what about abortion for medical reasons such as
    A woman who suffers from a weak blood vessel in her head, making it medically best for her to not become pregnant. Yet she does?
    Or parts of the infants brain are growing on the outside of the skull?

    As I stated earlier - I am against Abortion, yet as we profess how ‘civilized’ we are, I suggest we try to understand, if not accept both sides of an issue. We all have truths, some we share, some we do not.
    We all don’t have to agree, but I abhor it when party-politics allow people to become blind.

  10. symen

    symen DragonWolf

    I'm somewhat conflicted on this particular issue. The pro-life view is an obvious one, and I agree with the basic tenets, though I disagree with some of the tactics. On the other hand, I know someone who nearly died due to complications with pregnancy, and had no choice but to abort her baby or die as well (talk about a crap choice). I don't agree with using abortion as a method of birth control (if you don't want to reproduce, there are plenty of better methods), but I think it's valid in some cases.

    As a freedom-loving person I also agree with Rayzer with regard to a woman's right to do as she chooses with her own body, though rights by definition cannot be conferred at the expense of the rights of others, so I suppose it's a question of whether unborn children have any rights. I honestly don't think I'm properly equipped to answer that question.

    Hence the conflict. On one hand, you have a group who feels that murder is fundamentally wrong. A logically and morally valid viewpoint. On the other hand, you have another group who feels that people shouldn't be told what to do with their bodies. Also a logically and morally valid viewpoint. I think it's what is known as a Kantian hangup -- two morally correct but irresolvable viewpoints.

    On the comparison of this video to the slaughter of cows, having seen both, the same thing comes to mind in both cases -- it seems inhuman.

    That's just me, though. I don't profess to know all the answers...
  11. Hamma

    Hamma Commanding Officer Officer

    Indeed politics for the lose - I just want to state my opinion has nothing to do with it. I have no party :lol: Some things on both sides I agree with and some I disagree with. I think its foolish to align one's self with party views regardless of their own personal opinon.
  12. I have very Strongs views from both perspectives but whens it really boils down to it i dont think we should stop abortion and there are many many reasons not to have a child brought into this world that would have the proprer support.

    On a personal note Its too late im turning 36 on the 5th and you cant get me aborted anymore =P
  13. Om

    Om DragonWolf

    Ha! stubborness will keep you alive. My favorite flower is the dandelion, btw. It suits me quite well...plus it comes with a wish. Wish = hope. That's how you keep going even after the lawnmower cuts off your flower!!! You just make flowers with shorter stems. When they try to dig you out with a shovel, they always miss just a little bit of the root. Ha!
  14. If the pro-life people convinced the government to outlaw abortion, it wouldn't be any better.. in some respects it would be worse. If it were outlawed, the operation would still be performed except by less than adequate people and in certainly less than adequate settings.
  15. Since someone was brave enough to post this initially, I must state my brutal and narrow opinion!


    You know how I feel about abortion? Let's keep it up! Yeah! That's right! There's enough damn people in this world and it sure as hell isn't getting any less populated.

    The way I see it, You don't have a life, until you are born. No one here can honestly freaking tell me that you have memories of being a fetus. Know why? Because you don't have your own personal life until you come into the World. 7-10 weeks or whatever the cutoff time for abortions is, is not enough time to form anything but a shell of flesh and tiny bones. That is not a life! Life only exists when you are WHOLE.
  16. Im not coping out rayzer. I posted it, i admited how I felt, And then I said I wasnt going to argue About it. Yes, i said the world was watching, because I believe they are, not only about abortion, but a many number of things.

    It's a great debate though, and I think it's one everyone is going to be dealing with yet again (see recent events in South Dakota), so you have a taste of it now. I think xerxes touches on the root of the debate, at what point does life begin. For xerxes, its when you are born. For others, Those that are strong against abortion, It begins once the being is formed, and as you may know, thats very early on. So there in lies the root of the argument. Before you bash again rayzer, I ask you to consider this, If those that believe that life begins very early on, would it not only make sense that they defend it? to them its a life, a whole life, and to THEM, its no different then locking the door at nite, so someone doesnt come into your home while they are sleeping.
    Last edited: 20 Mar 2006
  17. Swifty,

    It is a cop out, because on the one hand, you throw out a very graphic depiction of one of the most controversial subjects out there, and on the other you say, "check this out, but lets not talk about it!".

    If you don't want it discussed, don't bring it up.

    p.s. I don't like agreeing with you either Hamma :p
  18. Good to know, thanx. This knowledge might come in handy~! ;)

  19. this is going to be a long one folks...and maybe stating the kind of things that some people wanted to avoid...but to post something like that...invites discussion which i am forced to bring out...

    for once..i agree with hamma......the world is ending soon kids...hold onto your hats....im torn to a certain extent here...i suppose...the other side could post pictures of the hospitals back before abortion was legal...back alley abortions....women and "children" dying because this was not legal...two lives lost...if...r.v.wade is dismantled and torn down to where abortion itself is illegal...we'll have that again...

    my job allows me to meet many older women who lived during the time of back alley abortions and hospitals for women where they could go to have abortions in secrecey(omg i can't spell that word) usually performed by some hack who's credentials(that word too) were that of boiling water for a midwife...and we all know now that the water boiling thing...unecessary(too much going on in my head..can't spell) ive heard many horror stories from the other side to believe that revoking r.v.wade is a good for anyone...has anyone ever met anyone who went thru any of that? has anyone ever seen the conditions that existed then? no...why? because that is something that at that time in our country was not discussed, mentioned or even thought about...where was the concern for life then?

    i can't for the life of me understand why the biggest supporters against r.v.wade are men...i can't...do you carry a child for nine months...hell..half the time the men suggest it because they don't want to be burdend with the responsibilities that a child will bring...they won't be there to raise the child...how many deadbeat dads do we have in our society now because many women chose to not go the abortion route...i admire a woman who takes the responsibility of going thru with her pregnancy but i by no means condem anyone who make thier own choice in this matter...jesse venture...bless his big stupid heart...was correct in his statement...the woman is condemed for making this choice while the father wipes the sweat from his brow in a sign of relief...

    why should the govt be involved in this decision anyway? thats my big issue...is the govt paying for the abortions? i believe state funded abortions have been limited to a certain extent...yet the govt ( you...me ) will be paying for the lives of these fatherless children thru taxes and social programs...i don't believe in using abortion as a form of birth control...but you know what...that womans life is not mine...and her decisions are not mine to make...if they were...she would not have been out fooling around...

    my beliefs and my faith are mine...and mine alone...and why should i think that they are good for other people...i may not agree with choices that people make...but im glad that they get to make them...and here is where the opposition would "bring out the goat"...a phrase i use to describe people who use the worse case scenario to support their beliefs...

    many wonderful lives have come from people who chose a path closer to my beliefs...and that makes me happy...but you know what makes me happier...is that others who do not share my faith and beliefs are allowed to make thier own decisions...

    this is a very sensitive spot for me...to me it makes me think that this is only the begining...these are choices that people make...this makes me fear for my lifestyle...i did not choose it but from some twisted chance of fate it was chosen for me...how long before i am deemed an illegal citizen...simply because it does not adhear to the ruling majorities ideals of morality and faith...this is my life and my body...keep your hateful and pious retoric away from it...
  20. i reopened the debate rayzer

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