Trick or Treat Night...

Kaikou, from what you are saying ALL parents brainwash their children. From day one a parent begins to instill their beliefs into a childs mind and "brainwashing" them as you so put it. Every parent teaches their children what is right from wrong or at least what they believe it to be. With your argument we shouldn't teach our kids anything at all. Just let them roam around and learn for themselves. But no we don't do that do we.

As for your comment on "biblical nonsense", once again that is just your belief and another way of saying that because Chrstians believe in the Bible as fact and live their lives by it that they are all stupid.

I totally understand the human nature of wanting to be free to do what we want to do without any regret or remorse and no consequences. That is our nature and it is a unlawful, chaotic nature. It was 11 years ago that I came to a point in my life that I realized that I can't keep living that way because it just leads to misery and pain. It was then I found out I was going to be a father. I knew that I was miserable and empty inside and for the first time in my life I realized that everything wasn't about me. I began to evaluate my life and didn't like what I found. I was just like any other person getting up going to work coming home, eat dinner, fight with the wife about some stupid little insignificant thing, watch tv and go to bed. I kept wondering what was my purpose in life and felt there had to be something more to life.

I didn't have joy in my life, I lied to myself for years telling myself I was happy and that I didn't need anyone or anything in my life. The thought of being a father knowing I would have a little one running around looking up to me (literally) scared the mess out of me. I knew that I had to be a better example for my child. I didn't want my child to grow up to be like the man I had become. It was then after 9 years of being in church, since the age of 15, I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior.

I am not a religious person at all. I have a personal relationship with Christ. I am not perfect by no means and have never claimed to be. I was just like you once and in my nature I still am. It is a daily struggle for me not live out that nature that is in me. I have to make a daily choice to try and live my life like Jesus did. Trust me I fail miserably all the time. But I know in my heart and because of what all God has done in my life and in the life of my daughters that He si real and He loves me. And that is what gives me joy in my life.

 

Nope, read my post again. My parents are Catholic. They did not force feed me bible stuff. I am referring to the crazies that teach their kids morality from the bible -- because it's from the bible -- for the sake of following the bible. Not all Christian/Catholic/whatever parents are like that, and not once did I say they *all* were like that. I think you missed my point completely if you think I believe parents should just let their kids run wild. Teach your kids that stealing is wrong - not just because the bible says so, but because stealing is an unacceptable thing to do in our society, and explain *why* it is such. Quoting "Thou shalt not steal" is a great start, but you're not being a very good parent if that's all you have to say on the topic. Get my drift?

*sigh* You're putting words in my mouth. I admit I was a bit straightforward in that comment, but I'm entitled to an opinion of biblical stories myself aren't I? You seem to think my opinion of the bible reflects my opinion of its believers. So by this logic I should think my parents, some of my friends, relatives, are all stupid. That is simply not the case. Is my negative view of the bible somehow coming off as a personal attack? I'd like to know why you would think this.

Sort of like thinking humans are the top dog of existence with an all powerful being backing their holy deeds right? Build the scenario, then enter "GOD MODE" (heh heh) so that you are exempt from consequences. Or so the pedophile priests thought. Religion won't exempt you from the responsibility to know right from wrong, and *why* things are right or wrong. I see it as an "easy mode" so to speak. You are given the rights and wrongs, but is it explained why things are right and wrong? Or are you just given a list of rights and wrongs, and threatened with punishments of hell and whatnot for doing wrong? I don't steal because I respect other people's belongings that they worked to get, just as I expect them to respect mine. Biblical followers generally (speaking of majority, not all) don't steal because God told them not to, and that hell is waiting for thiefs. Which side has a better understanding of why stealing is bad? Which side is more likely to have a more complete morality? Don't steal because you will be punished, or don't steal because it does harm to another? Which side is less selfish?

Yikes, I think you had a severe case of depression if that was how you saw the world. But please try to understand that just because you felt your life was going nowhere, that all it had to offer were misery and pain, and that you believe all humans are unlawful and chaotic by nature, doesn't mean it is fact. Or that such a self-hating attitude is the solution to the problem. This is one of religion's more destructive beliefs instilled into the believer. Self hate. You are nothing without a god. Nothing good can come of the world without a god. But to abandon hope for humanity like that is nothing short of an emo kid saying "f**k the world" in my opinion. It will only lead to the apocalypse your belief seeks.

And if you ask me, religions are the ones convincing people that the world is indeed all about them, not the other way around. An example I've used in the past - do animals go to heaven? No? Only humans? More specifically, only humans that believe in Jesus etc etc? Right. I cast off the belief that the world was about me when I was a toddler. Didn't you?

Not to mention it is the Christian belief that the world, that the entire universe, was created for the sake of man's existence. Think about it.

It seems to me that you had lost faith in yourself long before you gained faith in Jesus. You will probably agree. But what you believe to be a good thing (losing faith in yourself to ultimately gain faith in a belief) I strongly disagree with. This will sound cheesy, but if you don't believe in yourself, who will? Jesus? That may be acceptable to you, and I'm not going to touch that. Suffice to say I'd rather believe in myself than let somebody (who may or may not exist) do it for me.

Were those first two sentences an oxymoron? Or a play on words? Anyway, Jesus couldn't have lived a perfect life either. Mistakes are made. You kick yourself over them way more than I ever would though. That doesn't mean I don't learn from mistakes as well. Tell me, if you had the option to live a life *precisely* as Jesus supposedly did, would you take it over your current life?

This nature you speak of, you are referring to the chaotic and unlawful nature correct? Are you implying that I am a chaotic and unlawful person because I don't buy into Christianity? Gloves off, yes or no, I won't be mad.

Far be it from me to question something you believe brings you joy. There are other things in life that bring joy as well, you just need to be brave enough to venture out and find them. Don't your daughters bring you joy? Your wife? Your friends? Or is it just the belief that ultimate being X loves you? Which would bring you more joy, the love of your daughters, or the love of invisible being X? I've got a hypothetical question for you. What would you do if your daughters decided to become atheists? Technically their afterlife destination would be hell. Knowing this, would you rather go to heaven or be with them in hell? Just a hypothetical question that may or may not allow me to understand a religious person's mind better.

 

If you don't discuss problems, they'll never go away... Let me rephrase that...

Communication between people of different beliefs should be encouraged, not shied away from. If we don't communicate with each other, how can we understand each other? Politics and even more so, religious discussions generally spin off into arguments because the participants are fanatically dedicated to whatever cause it is. They are generally unwilling to take into consideration what the other side has to say because religions, as well as politics, generally say "We're right, no matter what anyone has to say".

Not once have I ever said my world views are "the right ones". On the other hand...well you know.

As for being a radical atheist, I didn't know you could disbelieve something with varying levels of intensity. I always thought it was a believe or don't believe sort of thing.

Fair enough? Communication is too important to avoid when faced with potential arguments. Maybe people need to open their minds a bit more when talking about those two particular subjects?

 

Aw...I think I killed it

 

I'm late to this conversation, and that's probably a good thing. However, I just want to say I was raised a Christian, actually spent most of my free time at the church (my mom was the church secretary, my dad was an elder, I was a junior deacon, my sister, dad and I were in the choir, my sister and I were both part of the youth groups, and mom and I taught Bible school and Sunday school).

Now that I've given you my resume, let me say that Halloween was never a problem for me, my family, or my church. We put together a haunted house every year in the church basement and had a great Halloween party. We always went Trick or Treating and never thought anything about evil, death or anything other than how much candy we could get and who could get the coolest costumes.

I don't mind anyone choosing not to participate in Halloween. That is your right. Its just a kind of silly holiday anyway. Something for fun. We actually went all out at work this year. They do every year. Its kinda silly to me, but we actually have a lot of fun. We decorate our rows and have all kinds of contests. The row that won the decorating contest this year did a Where's Waldo theme that was awesome! We had a costume contest and played games like pin the nose on the pumpkin and guess the candy in the jar.

It all seems a little overboard to me as we are a business after all, but people love it and it helps make work a little more enjoyable. Plus, we REALLY go overboard at Christmas! I can't wait for that!

 

See? Bretta has the right idea. Halloween is all about costumes, candy, and fun. What's the point denying kids this opportunity, just because some of the more radical Christian beliefs think that it celebrates evil, death etc...when it doesn't in the first place? I think some people take it waaaay too seriously.

 

yep, you killed it I would say Kai. Im so glad I came back to peruse the forums and see that there is yet another Religion thread going strong here. Why dont you people do something worthy of your time, like help old ladies cross streets, or go serve at the local mission, or volunteer at the food bank, lol. I think the there should be a new code of conduct rule, No discussions on religion.

Till next time, Happy Holidays everyone.

Swifty

 

I enjoy religious debate. There are different kinds of debates though. More often than not you'll get your religious person fervently defending their faith's theory of everything completely shutting out any other possibilities, and their only "logic" to back this dictation is "because my holy book says so". Those debates are indeed pointless, and sometimes I wonder myself why I participate in them. Other debates, the good ones, have both parties contemplating what the other has to say. The religious will acknowledge and ponder the contradictions of their faith, not fervently defend them. I've contemplated the idea of an invisible man in the sky using magic to make everything happen. But after also observing the world from a natural viewpoint, the proir theory is just silly in comparison. To quote Hitchens: "Religion ends and Philosophy begins, just as Alchemy ends and Chemistry begins, and Astrology ends and Astronomy begins."

Believe it or not I learn things about the religious person's mind through these debates, well, sometimes anyway. Human nature is a fascinating thing to me I guess, and the more devout religious people in general seem to reflect that nature in a more unrestricted fashion. One aspect being that people will believe what they want to believe. I know the CDL forums are definitely not the place for these discussions, but my curiosity generally gets the better of me. To make a rule against debating religion in the CoC would be a bit silly though. If both parties can remain somewhat civil, and more importantly, keep open minds, religious debate can spur wonderful discussions. I've seen it happen. On the other hand, it is very difficult to debate with people that "know" they are right, especially when the claims are so unimaginably wild, and devoid of rational logic.

I don't really feel like starting this thread back up again, we're all aware of where it will lead...again. Perhaps another day.

Oh, and hi Swifty.

 

My kids celebrated trick or treat with several of their friends and got tons of candy and had a blast.

My kids have no clue if they are celebrating Halloween, Harvest time or any other religious holiday. THey celebrate running door to door getting as much candy as they can. That being said, I respect the people who choose not to participate in Trick or Treat (note: I am purposely not calling it Halloween).

One of the houses they visited during trick or treat gave them a grab bag full of candy, a short message wishing them blessings and a New Testament Bible. An interesting approach to an event many feel is filled with evil and sin. This family chose to celebrate trick or treat and share their message of Christianity.

On the flip side, my kids received no cows blood, requests to worship Satan or partake any Druid rituals.

To the contrary of many here's belief; I think this celebration of free candy showed my kid's there are still good people out there that enjoy sharing.

Giving away candy does not need to be a conflict with your religious beliefs, maybe think of unique ways to share.

 

ok, so here goes.

My 4 year old son was a knight in shining armour.
my 7 year old daughter was a butterfly fairy
my 10 year old daughter and 11 year old son were both pirates.

we walked up and down our street, most of the people we knew and they threw extra candy in my kids bags. It was a chance to visit with neigbors as well. I got to chat with my kids' friends mom since both our children went together as a group.

We had my mother and her significant other (my dad is deceased) over for dinner before hand like we do every year, because where my mom lives she gets no trick or treaters and she enjoys seeing all the kids and we get lots of trick or treaters, so she passes out candy.

we had a great time. it was safe and the kids will remember it. My wife tolerates me :")

We also celebrate all saints day. imagine that.


Im 40 (ei washed up), Im a doctor, and I like to relax playing games online.

I'm also catholic,

I may not agree with everyones choices in life, but

I still love each and everyone of you. As I should. Anything less would be hypocritical.


Swifty.