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John Stossel making sense again...

Discussion in 'General Open/Public Discussion' started by Ground Chuk, 14 Mar 2008.


  1. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    "Age of Consent"...yes, about sex. Egad!! Sex!! Who in America ever talks about THAT?!?!

    And you thought it was legal. Guess what, it just might not be!

    Those who know what's best for you hard at work for you....

    http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4432467

    This is just a bit of what is going on.

    Zero tolerance is going WAY to far. If you saw the full show of this, you would freak. At least I hope you would.

    On a side note, parents, make sure your kids NEVER draw, even in stick figure, a firearm. Your kid will be suspended or reprimanded in some way. Any kind of HINT at a firearm will get your kids expelled or suspended, and a visit from the local PD.

    Zero Tolerance. It will save us all!
     
    Ground Chuk, 14 Mar 2008
    #1
  2. Catarena

    Catarena

    tell me about...my son was playing at school with the little boys in the class during recess, and they were "pretending" that they had guns and running around shooting at each other .....just like all little boys do....this prompted the teacher to call a parent-teacher meeting and a nasty note being sent home with him about the zero tolerance and the effects of gun play at school....i told the teacher that the kids were only 4 and that they were only playing and not even using toy guns but their imagination... heaven forbid that they use their imagination while at play and that they build the ever important interpersonal relations with other males
     
    Catarena, 20 Mar 2008
    #2
  3. Sentrosi

    Sentrosi Protocol Officer Officer

    Officer
    See, they should have been pretending to shoot each other with a banana...or even a pointy stick.
    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/piWCBOsJr-w&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/piWCBOsJr-w&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
    Cat, I'd advise your PTA to look at this training film.
     
    Sentrosi, 20 Mar 2008
    #3
  4. symen

    symen DragonWolf

    When I was young, I frequently played with toy guns (as most any boy does, I suspect). I sometimes even brought them to school to play with the other children on the playground. Now, I grew up poor, so I usually made my toy guns from scraps of wood, and as such, they didn't resemble the real thing very much, but some other children had better ones that did actually look like a real gun. Nobody ever said anything to us about it. I even (gasp) watched the occasional violent film as a child, and (the horror) actually fired a real gun from time to time. If the average school administrator and the media are to be believed, it's a wonder that I managed to avoid becoming a serial killer. :p

    This is all a backlash against the Columbine incident, though -- schools are paranoid that children who are regularly bullied will come in one day and shoot up the school. And, as Columbine demonstrated, it does seem to happen very occasionally. Of course, God forbid that schools take action to stop children from being bullied, or even stop encouraging it; instead, they'll do what they've always done and blame the victims. :mad:
     
    symen, 21 Mar 2008
    #4
  5. Catarena

    Catarena

    but what we all fail to recognize is that the reason that columbine occurred was because those two boys missed out on the interaction with other males at a younger age and the zero tolerance is now creating more of the same boys .....columbine situations will the norm for our schools if the zero tolerance crap does not stop soon....the situation that they are trying so desperately to avoid they are actually creating
     
    Catarena, 21 Mar 2008
    #5
  6. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    I just saw on our local news that they had two high schools submitted to searches with drug dogs...lockers and cars in the parking lot.

    I thought this was a violation of the "Illegal search and seizure" laws as defined in the Fourth Amendment.

    Isn't there supposed to be a "Reason" to search, and only that "Property" as mentioned in a WARRANT to be searched?

    Does the Bill of Rights only apply to Adults? If it does, then the police have every right to search anyone's house that have kids without a warrant.

    Someone may say that it is ok to search school kids property without reason. I say someone is wrong.

    These kinds of things only grow. You get used to it happening here, then when it spreads, you are less likely to find it wrong. "Hey, no problem having them search the neighborhood cars, it's cool. I seen them do it at the high school so it must be ok".

    "Hey, no biggie, they searched the neighborhood cars, why not the houses..."

    Like I keep saying....give them an inch and they will take every Right you have.

    And it comes down to one thing...

    "Armed citizens are Civilians. Unarmed citizens are SUBJECTS."

    Unwarranted search and seizure is what they need.
     
    Ground Chuk, 26 Mar 2008
    #6
  7. Hamma

    Hamma Commanding Officer Officer

    Officer
    We occasionally have the police come in here and do that mainly to practice a possible event.

    You seem to forget a school is a public building, just because you have a locker inside that building does not mean its yours. It's property of the city/state/district that you belong to. The cars on the property of the school however is a bit more questionable..

    It's the same thing with the computers I deal with on a daily basis, the student thinks because they sit at it and use the internet on it they can do whatever they want. This stuff is not theirs, it is property of the district and rules must be followed.

    Some of the Zero tolerance crap is ridiculous though.
     
    Last edited: 27 Mar 2008
    Hamma, 27 Mar 2008
    #7
  8. Pan

    Pan

    See I think (maybe I'm crazy) that perhaps they should be teaching kids out to safely fire weapons. When our kids are old enough, we will be taking them to the fire range and teaching them how to safely use a gun. Don't want our kids to accidentally shoot themselves or anyone else. I think it gives them the respect that guns deserve. Instead of forbidding kids to even think, draw, or 'play' about it just raises it's danger level and is not doing any good as we can see.

    That's my .02
     
    Pan, 28 Mar 2008
    #8
  9. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    Hamma,

    I agree, it is the property of the city/state/locality that I LIVE in. But I don't BELONG to it.

    I believe, since it is PUBLIC property, that means I help pay for it. The city/state/locality does not receive money from privately owned business transactions. They get their money from tax payers....The People.

    I believe We the People should have a say as to whether they do these things.

    By saying that this is PUBLICLY owned and the government has the right, then that means since you drive on publicly owned streets you can be pulled over for no reason and your car searched without consent.

    When we allow public officials to make decisions without the citizens involvement, we throw our control of our government away. They are here to serve us. Anything they do should be decided by us.

    We have for too long allowed the "government has the right" to take away our voice. For too long people have thought "the government knows best".

    It is painfully obvious that they do not.

    I am a homeowner. Yet I don't "own" the property it is on. It is, in effect, public property according to the government. I need permits to do certain things on it. I can't paint my house certain colors, as it doesn't "fit" with what the city wants. I have to follow their rules as to how it should be decorated. The government can take it away and give me a very small amount for it under "emminent domain" laws.

    Yet the sidewalk in front of my house, though it is a public thoroughfare, I must spend MY money to keep it up. I cannot fence it off, nor do anything to it, as it is city property.

    As we keep allowing infringement on our Rights, we eventually have none.

    You know why Ron Paul had such a loud following, but really hasn't done much in the voting? Because Liberty means Responsibility. People love the idea of Liberty, they just hate the idea of Responsibility.

    Why buy the cow and take care of it (Responsibility), when you can get the milk for free (government subsidies)?

    I only point these things about Rights violations out in hopes people might get an idea of what is happening. Same thing Ron Paul has tried to do.

    What people do with it is their own.

    But one must remember, when one says "well, it's ok the gov does this", and then it happens to them.....don't complain, file no lawsuit, understand that the gov is "doing what is best for you" and deal with the consequences.

    Our Fore Fathers and their Countrymen didn't die so we could just say "Britain no longer owns us".

    Liberty is NOT free. It not only takes the Blood of Patriots, it also takes the Patriotic Fortitude of Individual Citizens to take on this Great Responsibility to ensure that this Great Country remains Truely Free.
     
    Ground Chuk, 28 Mar 2008
    #9
  10. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    +1~ Education. That is the key.

    Any time you are in Ohio and want to go to the range, let me know!
     
    Ground Chuk, 28 Mar 2008
    #10
  11. Hamma

    Hamma Commanding Officer Officer

    Officer
    I knew you would go to the extreme with what I said and I don't agree with you. A school is public property if you put weed in your locker and it gets sniffed out then you were stupid enough to bring it inside. The locker is not yours in the least.

    The roads are public yes, but because you drive on it doesn't mean anything that touches it is government property.

    Apples and Oranges ;)
     
    Last edited: 28 Mar 2008
    Hamma, 28 Mar 2008
    #11
  12. Pan

    Pan

    Thanks, my bro was first considering joining the Police Acadamy and that got me thinking. I didn't want my kids 'not' going to my brothers because they had a gun(s). So that's when my husband and I talked about teaching our kids to use them safely. Once he decided to join the marines, we continued to believe it would be smart to teach them to fire a weapon.

    And I completely agree, education is key.

    What age is a good age to start taking them to the firing range?

    Our son James is only 2 right now, so I'm sure not extremely soon...
     
    Pan, 29 Mar 2008
    #12
  13. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    Extreme? When did "Innocent until proven guilty" go out the window? Things like this are "guilty until proven innocent". Whether some kid brings weed and has it in his locker is no ones business. If the kid does something that warrants a search, then ok. And a search of the one kids locker ONLY.

    Again, Liberty is a hard bit for most to chew, yet they love it when it fit's their needs.

    Yes, weed is illegal, but until there is a reason to search, then they should have the freedom from such searches.

    You may say that is crazy, but Liberty is all about personal Responsibility, not the government forcing their rules on people unwarranted. So that would mean others turning this individual in if they know in fact this individual had weed in their locker. Otherwise, unless this individual shown signs he was holding weed in his locker, it's none of anyones business, not even the schools.

    Things like this is what got us to Zero Tolerance, where now kindergardners are being charged with sexual assault charges for smacking one of the opposite sex on the butt.

    Personal Responsibility. Don't bring your weed to school. However, if there is no reason to suspect, don't bring in the drug dogs to a school. The latter is akin to a Police State.

    Even if it comes to finding a firearm in a locker, it is still wrong.

    You cannot use these tactics against innocent people. If you allow it, it will only get worse. "If you have nothing to hide" is a statement used to indoctrinate people into allowing abuses of their rights.

    These are my opinions, and I stand by them. Liberty is a harsh reminder of what humans really need to do and the Responsibility is huge. But it can be done, if excercised by EVERYONE Responsibly.

    But it won't happen, because people, again, don't want the Responsibilty. The government will take care of us. We are as sheep in the feild, waiting our instructions.
     
    Ground Chuk, 4 Apr 2008
    #13

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