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A must watch about our schools

Discussion in 'General Open/Public Discussion' started by Ground Chuk, 20 Jul 2007.


  1. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    Some may have seen this, but here is a 20/20 with John Stossel about American public schools. It is unbelievable.

    This video is a little over fourty minutes long, but well worth it. You will be mad when you see the school union part (if you aren't punching the monitor by now!!). I won't say anything about unions at this point!

    I never knew it was this bad.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfRUMmTs0ZA
     
  2. Hamma

    Hamma Commanding Officer Officer

    Officer
    As someone who works in public education (HS) I am happy to say we have a good school with a 98.7% graduation rate! :D

    I didn't watch the entire vid yet, but most of it seems to be the extremes of public education.
     
  3. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    It's John Stossel, he isn't looking for the extremes....he is looking for the norm. That is his style. And he is good at being fair. I have never seen anything by him that was biased.

    I think John Stossel is one of the BEST investigative reporters around. He shows both sides, and questions them both, equally.

    I also believe John Stossel really does have what is missing in the Media....Common Sense. And a sense of Fair Play. He gives each side a chance, but then he gives his view, which to me, is based on Common Sense.

    The only problem...he doesn't go far enough, hard enough, and really nail these people who have no hard facts on their side, while the other does.

    Again, for these "unionites", it's about money....nothing else. "How much money do I get and how far can I go doing a poor job before you protect my job, so I can get paid a few more years after?"

    It is obviously proven that non-union schools do better, because of competetion.

    Get rid of the union, make schools compete....have better educated kids. And kids who WANT to learn.
     
  4. Hamma

    Hamma Commanding Officer Officer

    Officer
    Well he may be a good reporter but most of that stuff is pure garbage compared to where I work hehe, we have a union but are a small one school district.
     
  5. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    Watch the whole thing.

    Your union may be different than the one shown, but I'm betting most unions follow what is being presented.
     
  6. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    Also, I don't know what school you work at, so I can't say one way or another.

    What he is showing is the norm of public schools. In fact, he can't get into most, even with students running the camera's except for certain students at certain schools...and of course they are top students in top classes at their schools.

    Yet students say how it is, and parents. But the students I will believe more than anyone, as they are there.

    And of course the actual scores. Our schools suck any more compared to the other countries. At least the public schools.
     
  7. Hamma

    Hamma Commanding Officer Officer

    Officer
    Watched most of it at this point, there's certainly shit wrong with our public schools. However most of the stuff he is covering is the extremes of Public education. Overall we indeed fail however it isn't as extreme as this story says it is throughout the country.

    I work at a Vocational/Technical school - kids have to work to get in which is probably why its 100x better than allot of these shitholes :lol: I run the computers and make sure 100% that they aren't playing games listening to music and dicking around, computers at our school are tools and not toys.

    They hate me, but they will thank me later :p
     
  8. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    What is the student count there at your school, Hamma?
     
  9. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    Just so you know, I went to and graduated from Beavercreek High School, Beavercreek Ohio.

    The school had Sophmores, Juniors, and Seniors.

    My Graduating Class of 1985 had around 650 members.

    Nowadays that is probably small for a graduating class, as schools are so crammed full of kids.

    I actually had a good time at school, most teachers liked/respected me, as I them, even though I didn't look the part. I even had one teacher come to another class I had and say "Ahh, I see you have him in your class...you won't have any problems with him, he's a good learner".

    My psychology teacher actually ran copies of some stuff I needed for my government class, which could have gotten her in trouble.

    My speed reading teacher got on me for taking two weeks to read a seven hundred page book, so when I finished, that weekend I read two more books. Not nearly as long...maybe 250 pages each, but I spent the whole weekend reading. She never started the first one, so I got a 4.0!

    My government teacher, even though I defered to do the candidate thing to just pass his class at the end, came to Graduation, and stopped me to shake my hand, and to wish me well!

    I kind of skated through high school, but partied most of it. Could I have done better? Sure. Could the teachers perhaps made an effort to do me better? Some of them did. But their job was to get us through. And they did. But they let me know I could do better. They showed me respect.

    I squandered the opportunity at the time. Noone else. I failed them at that time. But never forgot them (obviously!)

    I have MANY more stories of my teachers, most all good, that I will always remember. But though I may have squandered my formal education, their unformal taught me a lot.

    I don't see that too much in today's schools. Way to much PC crap where the teacher has to be "formal and professional". To "do their job" and nothing else.

    My teachers also learned from me, as they would ask me questions about who I am. And though they didn't always agree, they understood where I was coming from. They understood. They acknowledged who I was. That was important. And still is.
     
  10. I went to an all male military academy for the four years of high school.
    In that place they didn't LET you fail. If you failed they would make you relearn it all and take another test. I know of one teacher who made 6 different copies of a test for each class. If you failed all 5 retakes he would just make another.
     
  11. Sentrosi

    Sentrosi Protocol Officer Officer

    Officer
    Hmmm, interesting read (googled Stossel + ABC + Schools and got the text version here.) and I'm going to have to print it out and give it to my sisters-in-law, both are teachers. One teaches on the NATO base in Italy and the other teaches at a relatively small school. It's going to be interesting seeing their opinions on this matter.

    Personally, if I can't find the best education for my daughter, then I'm not doing my job as a father. My wife and I went through an exhaustive search for day cares in Albany and finally settled on the one she's in now. We couldn't be happier.

    I'm also blessed because, where we live in Albany, is considered to be Guilderland school district. Peace can attest to the fact that Guilderland is considered one of the best in the Capital Region. I just hope it stays that way for the next 15 years. Should a shift occur, then I would like the right to see her in the best school in the area. And if that means that I have to teach her, then I'll have to be the best teacher that I can be.
     
  12. Hamma

    Hamma Commanding Officer Officer

    Officer
    We have about 650 as well Chuk. (total) so its a small school.

    First school I worked at (which I also went to school at hehe) had 1250 - I think they are up to 1600 now.
     
  13. symen

    symen DragonWolf

    I don't think that you can point to any one factor as the singular cause for the state of public education today. Although, Hamma is right -- the video showcases the worst of the worst, because it makes for good ratings.

    Chuk, you stated a few posts back that teachers' unions are the problem -- I think they can be a source of problems, as they do sometimes provide job protection for teachers who frankly, don't contribute much. I actually like New York's model -- the schools are required to work with the unions for collective bargaining purposes, but the unions aren't permitted to strike to try to force the schools into untenable budgetary situations, and there is a process by which underperforming teachers can be removed. It's not perfect, but it works pretty well. I would normally be anti-regulation in this case, but as schools are government-run, and not private companies, I've got no problem with it. Private schools should be (and are) left unregulated, which doesn't actually do anything to help their performance, but that's a topic for another thread, as it's complicated, and at least in part, involves what I perceive as flaws in the testing methodology.

    The teachers will tell you that the big problem is that many parents aren't involved in their children's education. I have no doubt that there's a deflection argument present in some cases, but there's some truth as well. Some children have a home life that is, frankly, appalling, usually due to the failings of their parents. In many cases, these are the children who act out in school, not the ones with a stable home life.

    However, the key here is that these are public schools, meaning that the public has ultimate control of how they operate. If you, as a taxpayer, don't like the way your local school operates, tell the superintendent and school board that you'd like them to do things differently. If they don't listen to you, vote for their opponent next election, or run against them yourself -- it's not all that hard to get elected to a school board, especially if there really are problems with the school that people are aware of. Some people won't care how the school runs, but you can reduce their taxes -- who will vote against that? I don't know if this is universal, but at least here, the public, through the school board, controls the budget and curriculum (we vote on those directly), hiring and firing of teachers and administrators, everything. They're about as accountable to the public as government agencies get.
     
  14. I went to a catholic school for jr high/high school and let me just give all you parents a tip of advice in regards to trusting your kids with these kinds of learning institutions. I'm sure not all are like this, but I doubt mine was the only one... They were more interested in converting their students than educating their students. I haven't read or watched the article yet but if it involves bad education, this place was a perfect example. Forced to spend 10 minutes praying at the beginning of every single class, lessons interupted for the sake of talking about jesus, mandatory mass assemblies every week that cut well into school hours, where simply sitting quietly was not enough, you were made to participate. I wish I had been more current on an American's constitutional rights back then... I was even questioned by the priest at one of those assemblies as to why I have not accepted Jesus Christ. (To which I had a fun time replying "same reason I haven't accepted Shiva or Thor or Zeus or Quetzaquatl." he didn't much like that)

    But yeah, I doubt the article was about catholic schools, just my two cents in regards to bad educations...and ideas that should remain at least 100 yards from any school in the interest of actually gaining an education. Leave religion to the churches.
     
  15. as long as all my nyc taxes keep going to your roads and your schools..you will stay blessed

    don't even get me started on the state of schools here in nyc...or the damned teachers union boss wienergarten or whatever her name is...
     
  16. Sentrosi

    Sentrosi Protocol Officer Officer

    Officer
    Now look missy, no need to go into an upstate/downstate war. I pay for my school and property taxes just like everyone else does. I think our last property assessment we're paying close to $5000 in school/property taxes. I'm fairly certain that us upstaters pay into your school system just the same as you do to us.

    Overall, the NYC school system is just a quivering cess pool of corruption and bad management.
     
  17. symen

    symen DragonWolf

    NYC uses more state tax money than is taken in from city residents, so you and I do probably pay into the state-funded portion of the NYC school system, among other city services. This isn't meant to be an affront against the city, it's how all large cities work -- they aren't self-sustainable.
     
  18. damn, Sad thing is that I came from one of those crap schools.....
     
  19. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    The video says that they gave cameras to students (as the schools wouldn't allow the media cameras) who were tops in their class (the schools allowed this as they figured these student's classes would show the best behavior) in the top schools. How is that showcasing the worst of the worst?

    The videos the students took wasn't real appealing, but they were from top students in top public schools.

    John Stossel isn't about ratings, he's about reporting. Much of his stuff is very controversial, and if it wasn't him doing it, noone would touch it.

    Watch some of his "Give Me A Break" stuff. He isn't here looking for ratings.
     
  20. Sentrosi

    Sentrosi Protocol Officer Officer

    Officer
    He may not look for ratings, but I'm pretty sure his bosses are. Not saying he's a tool, but he is only as successful as his last interview.
     

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