Hooray for A Michigan State Professor!

I didn't realize this was now about kids. I thought we were talking adults.

Or are we to treat all adults as children now?

As far as Slander and Libel, how often do you see it used? Not often. Reason being is that there is generally a bit of truth in what is said.

But you are right, words can hurt. Now that we are talking about kids.

 

wasn't there some muslim or professor who spoke out agains the U.S in support of the radical muslim movement?...and then when people raised a fuss..everyone told them(the offended fuss raisers) to just simmer down...

i could quite possibly be thinking of something else entirely different....

 

We're talking about human beings, Chuck. Since I'd already raised the point of Jewish Holocaust victims, I thought I'd bring in yet another of the endless examples of human beings being injured by misleading cartoons and words and what words can lead to.

The article I wrote on my blog about SAS, I had my notebook and pen out while I was going through the tour and the director looked horrified when she asked me what I was writing. She said no direct quotes if I wrote about it on my blog because she had some trouble before-also, I wasn't allowed to mention Yoda. Odd, but true. Words are powerful and come with responsibility. Words end careers, ruin lives and start wars. But they can also heal and build and create peace.

They are now studying the phenominon of "mobbing" in the workplace, which is harassment based on words/lies that does actual physical harm to targets.

Now, I certainly invite you to continue to share your opinions, but this last post of yours...omg, I can't fathom that *you* actually believe what you're saying right now. Saying garbage just to prolong an argument, not worth the time.



Tyst, I would love to read whatever that professor wrote, just to see what he had to say, not that I agree with it, but perhaps it might shed some light on the circumstances. I think in most of these situations people are told to simmer down.

 

ya see..thats just it..i remember something only vaguely about the incident that im talking about...i was hoping someone would be able to remember more about it or something...someone who has learned to understand and comprehend my...vagueocity...heh..


words are really only as powerful as we let them be...what we have now in most cases are people allowing words to cripple their rationality...instead of focusing on a most simple common sense resolution...we focus on the mean horrible things that were said...and make the words the bad guy...we have freedom of speech wich is totally awsome...but what i would like is some freedom of common fricken sense...

pish...ive been called just about every homophobic name in the book...and many other derivities of a female dog, streetwalker...add a few graphic anatomical female variations that every prepubescent young stud has thought of...and even a few things in languages that i don't understand...

im rubber your glue...what bounces off me..sticks to you... this is one of the most important things i learned as a kid....oh and that you can fit about 5 frozen peas up your nose before they start to thaw and expand...

 

lol! cute. I guess we simply disagree here. Good to see you around more, test.

 

Omg...you called my words "garbage"..omg!! Someone should put a muzzle on that woman! There should be a law! Omg!!

Oh, and the "mobbing" (used to be called "rumors", but "mobbing" sounds more "threatening"..gives it more of a "sound bite" in the news) in the workplace. That should be dealt with by employers, if not by person to person. The government shouldn't be involved. Courts...maybe, if it is that bad. But hey, you do have the option of finding another job. Imagine that..a "choice".

As far as the Jewish thing...it was called PROPAGANDA. Something we are all affected by, if we don't EDUCATE ourselves. And the first thing the Nazi's did was DISARM the citizens. I wonder why.

Are you really advocating that cartoons should be censored? Perhaps you might like living in North Korea.

Test, I remember something about that. Seems there were lot's of lawyers involved afterwards. I can't remember what exactly happened, but I think people who were related to the person were brought into the fray, just because they had familial ties to the person.

Look, people want to ban burning of the American Flag. I hate Flag burners. But THAT FLAG GIVES THEM THE RIGHT. I don't like them doing it, but I, as an AMERICAN am obligated to DEFEND THEIR RIGHT to burn it, as that FLAG STANDS for their RIGHT to do just that.

America stands for Liberty and Freedom, and all the great stuff that means, but we must also endure all the nasty stuff that comes with it, as Justice will prevail. But we must be vigilant to protect the Liberty and Freedom part, no matter the cost. Protect the Liberties and Freedoms of INDIVIDUALS, and Justice will out.

 

I don't recall saying cartoons should be censored, just that when they imply false things, they do actual harm to innocent people.

Way to twist, Chuck. I bet a few people who read the words you put in my mouth were actually convinced I wanted cartoons censored. freedom of speech comes with responsibility that you don't care to acknowledge.

You are the most argumentative person on this forum so it's a bit funny that you try to pretend words don't hurt ...unless you're just doing it to irritate people and there is no actual passion behind what you say. Now I know I can type this here about you and it won't matter to you because words are nothing to you.

Feel free to continue arguing, but please leave me out of it from here on.

 

This is because sheeple refuse to think about the fact that what he says is true. It's just a bit frustrating.

 

This coming from someone who has years of experience living on his own, experiencing life in all its different aspects, being married, raising children, and/or traveling around the world.



Life is more than reading forums or YouTube and regurgitating someone else's opinions. Chuk has experienced quite a bit of life, so I can respect his opinions.

 

Quite ironic coming from someone who believes a book written 2000 years ago is infallible. I especially liked the 'someone else's opinions' part.

 

Interesting read:

"The Webmaster's Challenge

When trolls are ignored they step up their attacks, desperately seeking the attention they crave. Their messages become more and more foul, and they post ever more of them. Alternatively, they may protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed -- more on this later.

The moderator of a message board may not be able to delete a troll's messages right away, but their job is made much harder if they also have to read numerous replies to trolls. They are also forced to decide whether or not to delete posts from well-meaning folks which have the unintended effect of encouraging the troll.

Some webmasters have to endure conscientious users telling them that they are "acting like dictators" and should never delete a single message. These people may be misinformed: they may have arrived at their opinion about a troll based on the messages they see, never realizing that the webmaster has already deleted his most horrific material. Please remember that a troll does have an alternative if he has something of value to say: there are services on the net that provide messaging systems free of charge. So the troll can set up his own message board, where he can make his own decisions about the kind of content he will tolerate.

Just how much can we expect of a webmaster when it comes to preserving the principles of free speech? Some trolls find sport in determining what the breaking point is for a particular message board operator. They might post a dozen messages, each of which contains 400 lines of the letter "J". That is a form of expression, to be sure, but would you consider it your duty to play host to such a person?

Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a webmaster is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, the webmaster has to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one -- himself."

Ah, the decisions we must make. But make them we shall.

 

Hmmmm, took me a while to figure what I wanted to say on this post but I think I've finally got it. I think Test is right on track, yet I don't see how Om disagrees with her.

Are words powerful? Yes. They are very influential to everything we do and how we think about things. Chuck makes the point about the whole "Mobbing" thing actually being "rumors" and the media changing the word to nab your attention quicker. He has just contradicted him self by saying this.

Now, words are powerful, I agree with that, but do words start wars? No. Words cause people to loose control of their emotions. A person who can take it on the chin wont start a fight. A person who turns the other cheek will not escalate a problem. No matter what anyone does or says to you, if you learn to control your emotions, those words have no power. That said I think most people in the world who think they have control of their emotions do not. I don't think anyone does really. Everyone has a breaking point.

You can only call a Jewish person a kike so many times before that person becomes mad enough to push/ punch/ stab / shoot. But if that person has the power to walk away before that point, then the incident is resolved. It really comes down to a choice of the person being attacked. "Am I going to let this person continue to say things until I fight, or am I going to cease communications with that person before that point?"

That whole post about Trolls, if you read the whole thing, basically states the same thing. If the person spouting the crap gets attention, they continue to spout crap. That attention of course being retaliation. Depends on how mature and how developed a person is really. Of course a child is more prone to being hurt by words, they are easily influenced. At the same time, as test said, sometimes a child can handle words better than an adult. The whole I'm rubber your glue phrase. Its all very situational about the person when it comes down to it.

 

While I agree with you on this Peace that the person being attacked does have a choice as to whether or not they will walk away or not, your statement is putting ALL the responsibility on them and none on the attacker. We have a responsibility to chose our words wisely as they do hurt and they do cause wars. You never know how what you say will affect a person or how it will be recieved. So each of us needs to be mindful of that and have some respect for others feelings as well.

There are some things that need to be said in certain situations that undoubtedly will hurt some people and there is no way around it. You can't make everyone happy. The problem I am seeing is that in these types of forum discussions it's not as much the words that are being said as how they are being said. People lose focus of the topic at hand and begin personally attacking other people just for the sake of arguing.

Case in point: When Paladin posted about his dog and what a miracle it was that he wasn't seriously injured or even killed, instead of just saying to him, I am happy that Jet is ok or Glad nothing major is wrong with him, Chuk decided to attack it stating it wasn't a miracle. Now there was no call for this as Paladin wasn't "pushing" his beliefs on to anyone. By posting like that Chuk you took what was a very emotional and personal experience for Paladin and his wife and turned into an argument. You had absolutely no respect for what Paladin was going through all you cared about was arguing about the fact he felt it was a miracle. If I was in a wreck and severely injured and I made the comment that it was only by the grace of God that I survived, you would immediately attack the fact that I believe God protected me with no care in the world about me.

It's those kinds of things and the attitude behind it that is the problem. It's happening way too much in these forums lately and it needs to stop.

P.S. Chuck I am not singleing you out. There are others who do the same thing and some who live only to start arguments and having nothing of substance to offer to a discussion. But that is what a troll does. You though Chuk have offered up in many many discussions some very good and valid points of discussions. I respect your opinions and views an things and agree with you on some things. I just want all the personal attacks in these forums to stop. Let's not argue just for the sake of arguing.

 

I generally try to stay out of the faith and belief discussions, because they are inherently unwinnable. You cannot change someone's beliefs by agrument, at best, you can make someone question their personal beliefs or your sanity. I have found the best way to change someone's fundamental values is by demonstrating a better way in practice and daily living, not in words. Actions talk best.

Logic and arguments when used to attack belief systems are only painful, not productive. Belief and faith cannot be proven or disproven by logic. We are all passionate in what we believe, that is part of what makes this group so special to me. Give each other the room and freedom to believe what they do, and respect those beliefs, even when you hold different ones.

As one of the older members of CDL, if not the oldest, I would like to warn all of you, that your beliefs will change over your lifetime according to your life experiences. Some will get stronger, others will discarded, and some of the discarded deliefs may be rediscovered later to have great personal value. Don't make the assumption that where you are in your beliefs today is the absolute truth, and is the same place you will be in ten years. You will change, and your beliefs will be tempered, changed, or re-enforced by what you learn and live. Burning bridges today because of strident passions, will deprive all of us the pleasure of many years of interaction in this chosen group of associations.

Taunting and deliberately raising issues to cause pain to others, without ainfully adding to our knowledge base is pointless and dangerous. The young men in the California zoo found that out with a tiger. Baiting a tiger when you have impaired mental capacity from drugs and alcohol is much safer than baiting a member of this beloved group. We are here, in large part, because of love and respect due in large part to common beliefs and passions. Do not use the differences to cause grief.

.....okay, who stuck this soapbox under me????? Time for me to shutup!

 

Wow this thread got pretty...off track.

If you ask me, words don't hurt, unless you let them hurt. It is a personal choice if you will dwell on the fact that somebody called you ugly, or fat, or if you dismiss it.

If anybody, ANYBODY here can be or has been offended or otherwise deeply affected by something somebody had to say on the internet, they need to unplug their modem and stick to newspapers specially tailored to not offend. Freedom of speech encompases *all* speech. If somebody wants to proclaim that they hate blacks, or hispanics, let them. But if this individual were to take action against blacks or hispanics, it would be an entirely different story. It all comes back to that little thing called maturity. Are you mature enough to say "Sticks and stones"?

 

That's what I love about being atheist. I have no presupposed bias on how and why everything is. I think it's better to be unrestrained by a pre-determined "cookie cutter" belief system so you can find your own subjective understanding to life. Should it lead to Christianity or Buddhism, who knows. The problem with a lot of faiths is that their pre-determined subjective views of how everything is are promoted as objective reality. People don't want to accept that their religious views are just as subjective as any other. They won't generally think "even though I believe it to be true, it could be false." I often wonder why. The whole indoctrination of the faith most prevalent in the individual's culture is a terrible thing to watch a mind cage itself into believing is objective reality (I.E. "Absolute Truth"). This is why I feel the philosophical soil is much more fertile along a freethinker's path. I have a lot more respect for somebody that becomes a Christian on their own, rather than "inheriting" their religious faith from a young age, before they are truly thinking for themselves.

In a sense, Objective Reality is something humanity will never come to understand. So when religions boast their "objective realities", it makes me wonder what right they think they have. It isn't so much an "I believe" thing as it is an "I know" thing for most of them. If only it was so easy to know whatever the real truth of the universe was huh?

So yeah, I'm tired. Good morning.

 

Interesting point here Kai. I came to know Christ later in my life. I was not indoctrinated in any way by any system of belief. I am not bound by any denomination either. I was 29 years old when I accepted Christ as my Savior. I have been studying the Bible ever since.

Philosophy is a joy for me. I consider myself very free in my thinking as well. It is interesting--like Wester has said--that we find that what we may believe is incorrect early in life may turn out to be correct later in life through life experience. I also agree with Wester that a demonstrative faith is more believable than one that is only spoken.

Words are what we use to convey a message. They are how information is transferred, if you will, from the sender to the receiver. They can hurt and they can help. Although we have some freedom of speech, we are also responsible for what we say and will face the consequences for things said. I can guarantee you will see the limits of your freedom of speech if you make certain statements. They can bring legal action upon you.

The same goes for moral consequences. If you use your freedom of speech to degrade or hurt someone, there are consequences for that choice. Depends on where you are as to what those consequences might be.

Here, we tend to allow a bit of latitude for the sake of discussion. But, contrary to the likes of some, there is an absolute truth: you get nasty and personal with people here, you will loose that right to post. It won't matter who you are, we will remove it. Is that violating your freedom of speech? Maybe--but we won't allow anyone to exercise what they feel is their right to trample the honor of another person. It is a consequence of a choice.

That allows constructive conversation to continue.

 

How about dem Cowboys? lol.